Seems to me we are in a secular world or at least a secular United States. Has God/ Christianity been completely removed? And to live in a secular world free of reprecussions I'd suppose you'd have to remove Satan as well.
I acknowledge it is not easy to be Catholic and follow the straight and narrow path. What percentage follow the minimum set of Commandments to be Catholic? I run into more and more people whom call themselves Catholic and some think they are devout Catholics, yet it doesnt bother than to miss Mass on Sunday. Is it the individual whom know determines there path to Heaven?
I know at least the last two Popes have spoken out on these dangers of relativism, individualism, and securalism. If not before, I think we are in the midst of these trends now.
I think if you are following those simple principles to be Catholic today, I think you are thought of as the Christian-Right or worst. Do those ensconced in this seemingly fun, secular world want to hear what we have to share?
Frustrated,
Gerry
KEEP CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS
Wednesday, December 6, 2006
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21 comments:
Other than if the intention is to remove Christ out of Christmas. We have holidays we celebrate throughout the year, the main holiday of the year is Christmas, to celebrate Jesus' birth. These retailers are trying to capitalize off Christmas--are they not? Are they getting rich off any other holiday anytime of the year? Dont think so. Christmas is there bread and butter--yet many dont want to upset a very small percentage by keeping Christ in Christmas.
Gerry
Nope they are trying to capitalize off ANYONE who is willing to pay for their goods. Apparently, they have realized that there is also a market of people who are celebrating other holidays like Channuka (for example)
They are not removing Christ out of anything.
For me, this about summed up the level of ignorance that this article stems from. Many people are celebrating in the next few weeks and many, many of them are not observing Christmas.
But then I don't expect much from that organization..
off DIS site
Let me preface this comment by saying that I am a Christian who "celebrates" Christmas. However, I place very little religious importance on the season. It's a nice, emotional time of year. I like the music, food, weather, time off, family, etc., but the history of this particular holiday is weird to me, and there's nothing more than tradition that links it to Christianity (i.e. no scriptural basis for celebrating Jesus' birth).
It is the bread and butter of our merchants' year. If they're making a bad decision by using the term 'holiday', the market will make them pay.
Wildmon should be viewed with skepticism.
Another from DIS site
AFA - what a joke!!!!
PoohandWendy: well said!!!
I have weighed in on my feelings on "Happy Holidays": before..not gonna go into again - except to sum it up in one word: inclusion....
it is not the only holiday....you may feel it is the "main" holiday" - so what - there are people who celebrate/believe differently than you do.....retailers have a right to recognize that and to be considerate to ALL their customers!
I did contact them - to let them know we support them - and to tell them not to give into the tactics of a group like AFA!!!!!!
Another DIS site entry
What a steaming pile of hooey. The religious right is looking for things to feel persecuted about again. Whaaaa.
DIS Site
Oh is that the same old lame whining from the religious right about their oppression? Give me a freakin' break...the world does not revolve around you.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Tim
The Catholic League, Father Benedict Groeschel, C.F.R. and the other Franciscan Friars of the Renewal are pleased to join together for the 2006 Christmas Watch.
Every December sees its fair share of "Grinches," those retailers, schools, websites, towns and municipalities who refuse to acknowledge Christmas as part of the "holiday season." These Christmas kill-joys are all around.
This Christmas, the Catholic League, Father Benedict Groeschel, C.F.R. and the other Franciscan Friars of the Renewal have joined up to put the spotlight on these folks. Should you notice one of these Grinches, please let us know. You may submit the details either by faxing the Catholic League at 212-371-3394, writing to us at 450 Seventh Avenue, New York, New York 10123 or by e-mailing catalyst@catholicleague.org.
The names of the nominees are posted below. Each week, we will select the worst offender and dub it the Supreme Grinch of the Week.
http://www.catholicleague.org/linke...stmas_watch.htm
Jesus is the Reason for the Season
Gerry
Actually the main holiday for Christians is Easter, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
from another Dis entry
__________________
What is the argument? Easter is the most important day for Christians when Jesus rose from the dead--but seems like Christmas is the most popular 'holiday' of the year. Some 90% of Americans celebrate Christmas.
Gerry
Just have to ask Gerry, 'What would Jesus do?"
I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that he would not spend his time making a list like "Grinch of the week"
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem dude.
Another DIS entry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankyshank
Stores have used "Seasons Greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas" for years. How come no one got their panties in a twist over that and instead "Happy Holidays" gets a bad rap?
DIS ENTRY
I dont know! It seems the secularization of at least the US has been going on for a while and each year they want to de-Christianize a little more. Take Christ out of Christmas? I, for one appreciate the work AFA (American Family Assoc) and the Catholic League are doing to at least keep these against Christmas honest.
Gerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by poohandwendy
Just have to ask Gerry, 'What would Jesus do?"
I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that he would not spend his time making a list like "Grinch of the week"
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem dude.
DIS ENTRY
I dont know what Jesus would do surely he would not be happy especially with all this lukewarmness.
I just think it is important to Keep Christ in Christmas! Celebrate all the other holidays you want just Christmas should remain special.
Gerry
I don't think you understand, Christmas is not 'special' to people who are not Christians. You cannot expect people to conform to Christian beliefs. It's that simple. And as a Christian, I believe it is my duty and responsibility to be respectful of other people. Even ones who do not believe in Christ. Period.
Would you be ok with a Jewish person telling you, "Celebrate whatever you want, but Chanukah should remain special"?
There is not one person on this earth, nor one sale flyer, that can shake my beliefs, take away from my Christmas or make my faith 'lukewarm'.
DIS ENTRY
No one is against Christmas. "Happy Holidays" includes "Christmas".
The more secular the place is, the better off we'll be.
DIS ENTRY
Except for the fact that some 90% of the shoppers are celebrating Christmas...
Similarily, about the same ammount would be shopping for Christmas gifts. I would think the store might be a little upset if everyone who celebrated Christmas decided to shop somewhere else.
You can dance around the fact, or try to be as PC as you want, but the numbers don't change. "Other religions" make up about 5% of the population. Sure you can have a few things that celebrate their religions too (nothing wrong with that), but the fact of the matter is that you aren't escaping Christmas if you live in North America so you might as well live with it. I assume with your thought process we should print all our signs in 200 languages too? After all...there are many other languages then just English (or even Spanish) being spoken in America and we wouldn't want to 'offend' them...
DIS ENTRY
In whose world? Perhaps a fun place--where secularism and relativism reign. Perhaps, this is the direction this country is heading toward.
But if there are repercussions for our actions with God/ a supreme being than this is not the direction we want to be heading toward.
Gerry
An overwhelming majority of Americans supports allowing nativity scenes on public property. However, a smaller number — but still a clear majority — thinks if Christian holiday symbols are placed on public property that other religious symbols, such as a Jewish menorah (search), must also be displayed.
The latest FOX News poll finds that fully 87 percent of Americans say nativity scenes should be allowed on public property and only nine percent disagree. The poll, conducted by Opinion Dynamics Corporation, also finds 61 percent believe that if Christmas symbols are displayed that symbols from other religions should also be included. Less than a third of Americans (28 percent) approve of displaying Christian symbols on public property without recognizing other religions.
Almost all Americans celebrate Christmas (96 percent), while five percent say they celebrate Hanukkah and two percent the December holiday of Kwanzaa (search) (multiple responses were accepted).
Resisting the temptation to overindulge in holiday cookies and candy can be a challenge. Four in 10 Americans (41 percent) say they will not even try to resist and plan to "eat and drink whatever" they want during the holidays, while half say they plan to try to eat healthy, "but enjoy some holiday treats." Only seven percent plan to "completely stick to the diet."
(Story continues below)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105272,00.html
War on Christmas
Avoidance/censorship of Christmas
In 1999, VDARE.com editor Peter Brimelow is credited for first coining the term "War on Christmas", or "War Against Christmas", and the analysis of this issue became a prominent piece of conservative cultural criticism in the United States.
The phrases "Season's Greetings," or "Happy Holidays" as opposed to "Merry Christmas," have become a particular concern to many people.[9] The phrases are used on many postcards (as, for example, those sent out by the American Library Association), and by door clerks at Wal-Mart and other major stores. Don Feder, president of Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation stresses that it should be okay to say "Merry Christmas", and complained about "politically correct purging of Christmas from our culture." [2] Rabbi Daniel Lapin believes that "saying Merry Christmas is NOT Offensive" and complains that "We see obsequious regard for faiths like Judaism and even Islam, while Christianity is treated with contempt". [3] Further, Lapin says that "Nationwide, Christmas Nativity scenes are banned from city halls and shopping malls but Chanukah menorahs are permitted. (They are only cultural symbols, not religious, you see.)" and concludes that "Religious Freedom is for Everyone - Not Just Minorities" [4].
The idea of a war on Christmas in America gained prominence following extensive coverage on the Fox News Channel. The channel's commentators Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity first spoke of a "war on Christmas" in the months leading up to the 2004 holiday season, and picked up the topic again in late 2005. In particular, they cited certain school decisions and municipal codes that were supposed to single out Christmas observances for special restriction.
In several cases, the news items mentioned on Fox were denied by the persons involved. For example, O'Reilly said that the township of Saginaw, Michigan "opposes red and green clothing on anyone." The town supervisor responded that "O'Reilly's comments are flat-out not true...the township hall has red and green Christmas lights adorning the building at night."[10] Nevertheless, these reports bolstered a widespread popular sentiment that Christmas was being attacked by the political left. This was, and is, widely discussed on the Internet, especially in the blogosphere. A Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll for November 29–30, 2005 found that 42% of respondents believe that "there is a War on Christmas in the U.S. today," with 48% in disagreement. Media Matters for America, a watchdog group critical of conservative media, reported that from Monday, November 28, to Friday, December 2, Fox News aired 58 different reports, interviews, and debates about the War on Christmas. [11] Many print and television media outlets are skeptical, calling it a conspiracy theory or a deliberate attempt to further a conservative Christian agenda. [12] [13]
Regarding the phrase "Season's Greetings," as opposed to "Merry Christmas," O'Reilly argued: "Every company in America should be on their knees thanking Jesus for being born. Without Christmas, most American businesses would be far less profitable," O'Reilly said on a Fox News program. "More than enough reason for business to be screaming 'Merry Christmas'." Critics, however, point out that attempting to include non-Christians in Christmas by generalizing the holiday is a wholly capitalistic method of increasing profits — the more people affected by marketing, the more people will come out and purchase. In 2006 however, Wal-Mart resumed the use of "Merry Christmas" in their advertisements after a sharp decline in their 2005 holiday sales. Critics say that this was a result of some 96% of Americans who celebrate Christmas objecting. [14]
While the controversy over the phrase "Season's Greetings" strongly echoes Robnett's concern about the phrase "Xmas," the "War on Christmas" idea, however, differs from earlier discussions of the secularization of Christmas in two important regards. First, it treats many of the (really or supposedly) paganizing elements of Christmas observance as if they were essentially Christian symbols, so that, for example, Saginaw's purported ban of red and green clothing is an anti-Christian act. This is in contrast to many earlier critics of Christmas, such as the Puritans or the Jehovah's Witnesses: by them, the removal of Christmas trees, yule logs, and so forth would be viewed as pro-Christian. Some contemporary conservatives advance this line of thought as well, arguing that the "Christmas" that's allegedly under attack is a secularized, commercialized corruption of the Nativity to begin with.
Second, earlier critics have usually seen Christian observance as coming under attack from generalized secular and capitalist trends. Modern critics tend to see Christmas as being specifically attacked by a conspiracy of secular forces, and are less concerned about the commercialization of Christmas per se. For example, John Gibson, wrote a book entitled The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought (ISBN 1-59523-016-5), which was published in October of 2005. Gibson and others claim the abolition of Christmas (War on Christmas) is part of a broader "culture war" waged by progressives. O'Reilly claimed that "it's all part of the secular progressive agenda ... to get Christianity and spirituality and Judaism out of the public square." He also went on to say that this larger agenda includes "legalization of narcotics, euthanasia, abortion at will, gay marriage." [15] In this alleged recent movement, Gibson has charged that a wide array of groups, including "liberals," "secular progressives," the ACLU, the Anti-Defamation League, and Americans United for Separation of Church and State are the forces behind the attack, while O'Reilly has focused more narrowly on the ACLU and billionaire financier George Soros. [16] [17]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Christmas
Christmas
Hi there,
While I agree with you and enjoy reading your posts, its really a waste of your time here on the DIS. Most on the DIS disagree with you and will tease you and pick on you.
This debate comes up a few times a year on the DIS. It will come up again next year too.
Don't feel bad if they don't see your point of view. Just know that some do.
Originally Posted by DisneyGerry
Thanks
My wife tells me to stop reading them as well
Ive been in the middle before--usually with more on my side though.
It is frustrating and surprising many feel the way they do.
Gerry
Your welcome!
My DH says the same thing; Not to read threads like that but I always end up keeping my eye on them anyway (like a car wreck I have to look). I've been trying very hard though not to post in them because I don't like being attacked and debating with folks like that who will never see myPOV and will only mock me. Yes, it is sad and frustrating to say the least.
Good luck though!
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